A reader writes: “I am 15 years old and I just started my sophomore year of high school. I also came out as genderqueer a couple of weeks ago. To make it easier on people, I chose one set of pronouns and I give people little cheat sheets with my pronouns.
“My mom seems to be really supportive, but as it turns out, she is refusing to use my pronouns (subjective: e/ey, objective: em, possessive: eir/eirs, reflexive: emself) because she doesn’t want to memorize them, and she also thinks that they’re awkward and that nobody’s going to understand what it is she’s talking about. My dad and brother pretend that nothing is different.
“My teachers are really cool about it, but so far they haven’t used any pronouns at all. My closest friends are mocking me a bit, and my friends still use the female pronouns and occasionally remember that I’m genderqueer and ask me what my pronouns are.
“My sensei, with whom I talked the most extensively about my gender identity, is just as nice as he was before I came out, but he consistently uses the female pronouns. I still haven’t had the guts to find out why – I am planning to do that soon.
“So this is pretty much my situation. Everyone I came out to is okay with my identity, but they call me she. Although I understand that this is very new to everybody and that my pronouns are unfamiliar, I have this feeling that people really aren’t even trying. Am I asking for too much? Do you have any suggestions on what I should/should not do?”
Pronouns are probably the most difficult part of being trans or genderqueer, or being in another situation where they might change. What I have found as a trans person transitioning from female to male is that the name came far earlier and with much more ease to others than the pronouns did.
Most people had no problem calling me Matt, and there was very little “slippage.” However, the changeover to “he” was much slower and much more aggravating – particularly for me. Friends would say, “Matt’s driving. She says she’s got enough room.” Or “Matt wants to come eat with us. She’ll be ready in a minute.”
I had less patience than I should have, and there were times when I threw little temper tantrums that I now regret. But if it was this difficult for people to switch from one commonly used pronoun to another, it will be infinitely more difficult for people to switch to uncommon pronouns that they have never used before and are completely unfamiliar with.
To be totally honest, I have a really hard time with gender-neutral pronouns. It’s not that I have negative feelings about them. It’s just that I was raised in a generation where “he” and “she” were the only options, and no one had ever heard of “ze,” “nu,” “e,” “ey,” or anything like them.
Very early in my transition, I was given the honor of introducing Leslie Feinberg at a conference. I was all jittery anyway, because Feinberg was one of my idols, and I had no idea what pronoun to use. Feinberg could tell I was nervous – I was falling all over myself just to meet hir. I said, “What pronoun do you want me to use?” Ze said, “What pronoun do you want to use?” I said, “Well, I think of you as he.” Ze said, “Then use he.” Thank you, Leslie!
While we can’t all be as patient or as gracious as Feinberg, I think that we sometimes have to give people a break – particularly if they’re trying. But it does sound to me as if your family, friends, and associates probably aren’t trying too hard.
The problem is that you can’t make them say or do anything. They have to want to be respectful of you. When you’re an adult, you can sever ties with anyone who refuses to respect your identity, including the use of correct name and pronouns. In some cities and states, legal action can be taken against an employer for not complying or not requiring the workforce to comply. But as a minor, it is more difficult.
It is hard to sever ties with your family, and you probably don’t want to. There’s a slim possibility (probably slim to none), depending on where you live, that school personnel could be in violation of a law or district policy if they are intentionally misgendering you, but it sounds as if they are using no pronoun at all, so it might be hard to prove intent.
It is also possible (although not probable) that your friends could be in violation of a school bullying policy for intentionally misgendering you or teasing you. But you might not want to take it that far at this point, and again, you are not coming from a position of power. There are some trans people who will not even sympathize as they struggle to get people to use the correct gendered pronoun.
But there a few things you can do:
> You can have a one-on-one talk with your mother, each of your teachers, and each of your friends to let them know how important this is to you and why. You can talk to them about how they would feel if they were misgendered. You can ask sincerely for them to respect you and your identity as you respect them and theirs.
> You can find a new group of friends who will respect your identity and not make fun of you. As you move through high school and into college or into the world, you will find more people who identify in similar ways and who are open to respecting your wishes for your pronouns and other language.
> You can refuse to answer to incorrect pronouns. You can pretend you don’t hear the people who are misgendering you, and when they call you on it, you can say, “Oh, were you talking to (or about) me? I didn’t realize that, because you said ‘she,’ and that’s not what I go by.”
> You can try to get one friend on your side – someone who will always use the correct pronouns and will correct others when they don’t. Often, if one person starts using your preferred pronouns, others will step in line (this might not work with your family or teachers).
> You can become an activist for gender-neutral pronouns. You can ask to write an article (or several) for the school newspaper. You can join the school GSA or LGBT Alliance, if there is one, and create flyers or speak at an assembly. You can take your activism outside of your school and write a letter to the local newspaper or put up YouTube videos or start a blog.
Regardless of what you do, you might not succeed in getting people to use your correct pronouns, but you can help plant the seed for future generations. You can start exposing people to gender-neutral pronouns now, so that in the future, “he” and “she” won’t be seen as the only logical choices.
This is a tough one, and I wish you the best of luck. I’m hoping that readers have more thoughts and suggestions, so I turn it over to them.
(Ask Matts are backed up. I’m trying to take them is the order that they are received. If you have written to me, I have it and will post it. Thanks for your patience.)
I identify genderqueer as well, and “she” is STILL the pronoun 99% of people use. It is irritating to the nth degree, but, as Matt said, you cannot MAKE folks do or say anything. It will, when you are an adult, be up to you who to keep in your life. People who deliberately disrespect you or make fun are not worth your time. But remember- Matt is right. Pronouns are the hard part. People will take forever to get that right, if they do at all.
I’m genderqueer, and I just hate gender neutral pronouns. There are a ton of them and everyone has their own favorite, no one knows how to pronounce them because their use originated from the internet, and they feel awkward and conspicuous when inserted into everyday conversation.
That being said, female pronouns feel bad, and male pronouns feel wrong. It’s just one of the downsides to being gq. There are upsides, of course.
All I can hope is that younger generations will use them more and more, which will cut down on the awkward factor. Either that or gender-specific pronouns will simply cease to be used at all.
I’ve gotten used to the “she.” It doesn’t feel right, because it feels like people don’t take my identity seriously. I am not a guy, though, so that isn’t right either. I guess “she” is ok for now….
People use “they” all the time, though the usage of it for one person whose identity you know for sure might be newer. Feels pretty inconspicuous when said out loud as someone’s gender pronoun.
[Just background – I’m 27, I live in a fairly liberal/progressive city, and I’ve known a number of people who use alternate pronouns both in college [probably the most receptive audience you’ll ever get] and after. These are my observations based on that.]
While I am totally supportive of alternate pronouns, people have been trying to add gender neutral pronouns to English for literally centuries. You will notice that none of them have taken. This is because a) that’s not how language works, and b) that’s not how brains work. Our brains form around the language we speak. For example, people from cultures/languages that don’t have different words for “blue” and “green” have great difficulty distinguishing between those two colours. Similarly, being raised speaking a language that gives binary gender options, most English-speakers will have a very difficult time carving out a space in their brains for more genders.
Using alternate pronouns is an exercise in mitigating failure, not in creating success. If you stick to your guns, unless you spend the rest of your life interacting only with people you’ve trained and the small sliver of the queer community that’s good with alternate pronouns, you will spend the rest of your life getting misgendered. Teachers, bosses, cashiers, etc – they are not going to care enough. Even many of the people who care about you enough to train themselves to use them will think of you as “she” – using the right pronouns will require constant mental correction [see the culture/language bit above].
If you can get yourself to a Feinberg-esque state, that might reduce your stress-level. Also, I have noticed that many people seem to have an easier time at least superficially conforming to zie/hir pronouns, because they fit into the rhythm of the language better.
“For example, people from cultures/languages that don’t have different words for “blue” and “green” have great difficulty distinguishing between those two colours.”
Not quite—they just don’t have wholly distinct names for them. Just as we can distinguish between “light” blue and “dark” blue–which in Russian have two different names– though we call them both “blue”.
No, there is actually a difference in the ability to perceive differences between colours between people with different colour vocabularies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b71rT9fU-I – all interesting, but the relevant part starts around 3:00.
Hi, just FYI, Chinese has no gendered pronouns in the spoken language, and only introduced gendered written pronouns in the early modern period. You can have a whole conversation in Chinese without someone knowing the gender of the third party you’re talking about. And folks who speak Chinese don’t have any more difficulty distinguishing male from female than English-speakers do, last I checked 🙂
It is not merely pronouns, it’s the linguistic concepts of gender. English has two gender categories [he/man/boy/male and she/woman/girl/female] and one non-gender category [it/thing]. “Ey” does not map to an established concept in English, so it’s hard to make headspace for it. I’m guessing that Chinese has man/boy/male and woman/girl/female concepts [they might have additional gender concepts – I don’t know] for those new pronouns to anchor themselves to. It might be that a Chinese person would have an easier time holding a gender-neutral general person template in their head [since they might be more used to talking about someone who’s gender they don’t know], but that certainly doesn’t mean they’d be able to extend that gender-neutral view to *a specific person*, nor that they’d be more receptive to genders their language has no categories for.
Your best plan is to realize and accept that neutral pronouns are awkward and many to most people won’t use them. We live in a gender binary world that dislikes, attacks even kills anyone who is different. It’s not going to change any time soon.
As Matt suggested, try to find people who will use them and become friends. Outside of them, accept that the world will not use gender neutral language.
Oh, the pronouns! I had SRS 5 years ago and people who knew me in the past still call me by my boy name at times or the wrong pronoun. It is obvious when someone is doing it intentionally and when people just slip up. I find that explaining to people when they do slip up about how embarrassing it is when they call me “he” in a restaurant or public place. I also explain that it can actually be dangerous to be “outed” because you never know how someone might react. Not only is it embarrasing and humiliating, it also reflects that they do not support my decision to transition. Eventually, they get it and slowly change. One has to have the patience of Job. You may even find that you have to eliminiate some people from your life if they can not fully support you and continue to humiliate you by misgendering you. You choose who is important enough in your life to be patient with and who is not worth the effort.
I do not think people are going to use genderless pronouns in my lifetime so I really don’t hold my breath on that. In fact they sound pretty silly to me.
I remember when my cousin decided to go from using Charles to Chuck for his name. I found it so difficult to make that change. I try to remember that it took me years to feel comfortable with that small change so I just try to relax and give most people some slack. Genderally when they hear everyone else calling you the correct pronouns and name, they will come around.
I find using they/them as a singular, gender neutral pronoun is much easier for me to use in conversation than any of the other gender neutral pronouns I’ve seen proposed, probably because I’m already familiar with it, & only have to shift my thinking that it’s always plural without also having to remember new words. Even Shakespeare used “they” as a singular pronoun, so it’s use in that form has longstanding precedent, although unfamiliar to most.
I’m not sure that being are being disrespectful, when they do not use terms that are completely foreign and awkward sounding. Perhaps it feels disrespectful, but that is not the same thing.
I don’t see GNPs becoming a part of our everyday lexicon.
Its my understanding the Leslie Feinberg is now/again dyke identified and prefers female pronouns. I read a blog post she wrote last year or the year before, stating such change/preference.
I have watched many of my brothers, in the FtM community, go through a period /phase where they preferred /requested GNPs be used. Many of them now use/prefer male pronouns. Interestingly, through ongoing conversations on the topic, it became obvious to them that they shied away from male pronouns more out of a knee-jerk reaction against men, that they learned from some women in their lives, than because they liked/preferred being gender neutral.
Heck even I went through a period, which last a year, where I ‘insisted’ that people conform to my preference for Ze/Zem/Zes. Guess what? No one did. It bothered me, but then I discovered that people were having a difficult time and feeling badly about “messing up all the time.” I had created a bubble around me, where folks felt hesitant to interact with me and I temporarily lost important connections, which I regretted. And yes, I also preferred GNPs because I was not yet comfortable with being/becoming a ‘man,’ rather than because I wanted to be a gender neutral person. Overcoming my internalized misandry was the most challenging part of my transition (year 1-4) from female to male.
Eventually I let go of requiring/demanding that others conform to my expectations and ‘feeling slighted’ by their honest mistakes, as I decided to view them as such. I noticed a HUGE shift away from negative energy in my body /life, which was a much better experience.
I am a big fan of the singular “they.” A lot of folks use it already in reference to someone whose gender is unknown and it really translates well in reference to people outside the binary. It also doesn’t bring attention to the pronoun itself so that the conversation can just flow instead of veering off into semantics.
Hey Matt,
I’m a non-binary person in my early thirties who’s gone by gender-neutral pronouns for a few years now. While I think your advice to the letter writer is spot on, I think you should keep in mind that as a binary-identified trans person who has medically transitioned, you have an ability to have your gender correctly read via external cues that the letter writer does not – and that ey might never have.
I’d also object to your characterization of Leslie Feinberg as “gracious” and “patient” here. Feinberg may have had any number of reasons to accept male pronouns from you in that moment – ze could have been exhausted at having to enforce them throughout the conference, or perhaps pronouns are more fluid and less important to hir than they are to the letter writer. Either way, the implication came off as saying that the letter writer is being obstinate and petty by insisting on the correct pronoun. Would it always be better to accomodate one’s conversation partner’s preconceptions instead of expecting them to acknowledge and respect your identity? Would you ask the same thing of a binary person?
If the letter writer is reading the comments, I want to say to em: Yes, pronouns and misgendering are going to be an issue indefinitely. Yes, people will cop an attitude and pretend that’s not how language works, in the very same breath they use to call you Ms. None of this means that you should stop being genderqueer, or try to find a binary pronoun that hurts less to hear, or go back in the closet because it’s just too hard and why try. You also do not have to climb that mountain every time, and you are not misrepresenting yourself or selling anyone else out if you are too tired to enforce pronouns, or feel unsafe doing so, or discover that they feel less important to you than some other aspect of your identity. And know that you are changing the world that you move through with your authenticity in ways that you could never imagine, even when it’s scary, or painful, or unimaginably hard. Go forth and be your beautiful shining genderqueer self.
I agree. It’s not nonbinary people’s fault that society has denied their existence to the point of not having pronouns already built into language for them.
There’s a lot of people out there who believe that calling “a woman” (a trans man) he and calling “a man” (a trans woman) she is just as “silly” and “unnatural” as many of my fellow binary (cuz I’m binary enough to “pick a side”) trans people are saying nonbinary pronouns are in this thread.
Just because, “It’s so hard!” doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing, or that people aren’t worth the respect, or that because things are the way they are means that no action should be taken to change them.
Yes, people have been trying to introduce gender-neutral pronouns into language for some time, but mostly to use in instances where “nonstandard” singular they is the best choice right now – as an indefinite singular third person. This is the first time that nonbinary people are becoming organized, finding each other, talking about their experiences out loud, and asking for these pronouns to be used to refer specifically to them as individuals. That might be the key ingredient that society needs – someone definite to use these pronouns for – to make them stick.
I’m nonbinary too, and pronouns are definitely one of the biggest problems. But for me, at least, it did improve. It took one or two years after coming out before people in my life were consistently using the correct pronoun, but now they are, and that’s the best feeling.
I’m getting a definite vibe from a lot of the commenters on here of, “Silly genderqueer people, so picky and stubborn! Everyone would be so much happier if you just accepted a binary gender!” If that’s you, I’d suggest you examine your privilege as a binary-identified person, accept that you can’t understand what it’s like to be nonbinary, and stop talking down to us like you know better. We don’t decide for it to hurt when people misgender us. We don’t decide both binary pronouns are misgendering. That’s just the way it is, and we can’t just “get over it.” It doesn’t matter that they’re not doing it on purpose, that’s not the point. They need to try harder.
I’m not going to give up. I disagree with the premise that it’s impossible to introduce new pronouns into the language and we should stop trying, because hey, guess what, it’s happening. New words have been introduced and settled firmly into our language all throughout history, so why not this? Why not now? Now is the time when people who need it are pushing for it, are coming out of the woodworks to demand that people respect them enough to use the correct pronouns, however difficult it might be. So no, I’m not going to shut up and sit down, I’m not going to take your excuses about how difficult it is and unnatural and blah blah blah. Poor you. That’s what they are in the end, excuses, and they are not good enough.
*steps off soapbox*
Thank you.
thank you. i’m not pissed off or anything, but i’m totally feeling the “silly nobinary folks! accurate pronouns are for binary people!” vibe. so, thanks for getting on your soapbox, riam.
Put me in the crowd of “never going to happen”. In spaces where people have worked hard to train themselves you may be able to get the set of pronouns you prefer, but even there you are more likely going to be referred to by whatever set of gender-neutral pronouns those people have internalized. I can casually refer to people as ze/zer/hir, but that’s after two decades of effort and it still sometimes feels forced and awkward.
Perception of gender-as-binary is hardwired earlier than gender identity itself; it is incredibly difficult to disrupt.
Were there a standard set of non-gendered pronouns they might be able to take off, but despite a hundred years of effort the only thing we’ve got is a singular “they” that we had long before that for non-specific people. I don’t think the idea of personal preferred sets of pronouns is going to make adoption any faster. I personally choose not to interact with people who want me to learn a whole new language just for a single individual, because I think it is gimmicky and setting me up for failure; I can either mess up pronouns or I can not interact and the latter seems more respectful.
I queer my pronouns by requesting pronouns that differ from my presentation. Other people I know request that people mix existing. You are welcome to request anything you want of people around you, but I suspect you’ll have the most success finding something that you can be comfortable with and the people around you can actually adapt to. I believe social satisfaction most often the product of collaboration with the people around you; language only has meaning because it is shared.
I transitioned some 20 yrs ago. My family which does refer to me as she ( I am M2F) sometimes when we are alone (no outsiders) will refer to me as Dad and call me she. It is quite funny.
I find it easier to construct sentences that do not use pronouns at all than to use they, ze/hir or any other gender neutral pronouns.
I don’t know if people who have played pronoun games for other reasons (e.g., not revealing the gender of a partner in random settings) may have more practice at this.
And I think it’s possible to improve how smooth it is to use a person’s given name or refer to them without pronouns at all. This doesn’t affirm anyone’s non-binary identity, but at least it doesn’t negate or deny it either.
You may have more luck asking people to avoid pronouns altogether than to get them to use the one you want, and some will eventually figure out how to do it without repeating your name 10 times in the same sentence.
I do not understand what it means to be “non-gender”. Is that the same as bi-gender? I can not imagine being devoid of any feeling of gender. I suppose the idea of being Gender Queer is to not be confined by cultural gender constraints. I always felt somewhat bi-gender or gender fluid. After SRS and transitioning for 5 years, I have to say that ambiguity is much less and I feel much more defined as a woman, albeit a woman with a Trans history.
hi! i don’t want to derail this thread by going into this awesome discussion, but you can totally message me if you’d like to chat about nonbinary gender. i love talking about it, so don’t be shy. 🙂
People have enough trouble comprehending what it means to be transsexual, and even well-meaning people don’t understand why it hurts when they use the wrong pronoun. I would imagine most people have an even harder time comprehending what it means to be genderqueer, and even people who correctly refer to transsexual people might not understand that it hurts when they use the wrong pronoun for genderqueer people. The masses need to be educated on what it means to be genderqueer – and unfortunately not many people besides you are going to do it. You might also want to choose some other acceptable means of addressing you (like maybe you’re OK with your teachers addressing you by name instead of with pronouns, or you’re OK with people calling you “they”)
to the op: hi! i’m a nonbinary trans* person and my pronouns are mostly “they/them/their.” i say “mostly” because some people prefer to apply other non-gendered pronouns to me (“ze/hir,” my name, etc.) and i’m totally cool with that.
when i first came out as a nonbinary trans* person, i insisted on “ze” for awhile; it did not work out. my partner couldn’t handle it, my family couldn’t handle it– most people wouldn’t even try it. i got pretty discouraged because the people around me misgendered me or avoid applying pronouns to me– which made me feel totally disrespected as a nonbinary person.
then i started asking people to use whatever non-gendered pronouns they felt most comfortable with: singular “they,” “ze,” “em,” my name, etc. almost everyone in my life started putting some effort into it. (those who didn’t are out of my life for good.) a year later, people still fuck up, but most of them correct themselves and the rest are comfortable with me correcting them. a lot of people don’t fuck up my pronouns at all and the majority correct each other consistently.
it’s not perfect, but i’m surrounded by people who try to get my pronouns right. i’ve found that singular “they” is fairly easy for most people, though some people don’t want to use it because it pisses off their inner grammar-hero; those people tend to feel quite comfortable using newer non-gendered pronouns. giving people the choice between different pronouns seems to serve the practical purpose of getting other people to stop misgendering me (or to put in some serious effort). to me, not being misgendered is far more important than my actual pronoun preferences; i really like “they/them/their,” but i’m not going to insist that someone use it if “ze” is going to be easier for them.
that said, figure out what your priorities are; not being misgendered vs “e/ey.” whatever you decide, your choice is totally valid.
if “e/ey” is your top priority, expect difficulties. still, don’t back down (it’s your top priority!) and don’t apologize for correcting people (i used to do that; i don’t know if you do). these pronouns will be hard for some people to get used to (and some people will refuse to try, as you’ve noticed), but that doesn’t mean you have to give up unless you want to. just be aware that it could take a lot of time.
when somebody misgenders you, you’re within your rights to correct them politely and firmly. in my experience, consistent correction is the way to help people learn pronouns as quickly as possible– though it still takes time.
i deal with strangers by wearing a gender tag (http://rainbowgenderpunk.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/i-have-a-gender-tag-its-like-a-name-tag-for-my-gender/) or a pronoun tag. basically, i get a blank sticker and i write stuff on it. for example, “my pronouns are ‘they/them/their.'” when strangers misgender me, i can point to my gender/pronoun tag and (hopefully) have a chat with them about my pronouns and nonbinary gender.
basically, do what you have to do, listen to riam (that awesome commenter up-thread), and take care of yourself.
ps: my mom used to “not get” this whole “trans* thing” and she used to get my pronouns wrong ALL the time. then i sent her this video (http://rainbowgenderpunk.wordpress.com/2012/04/) and she started putting some effort into it. maybe it’d help your mom, too? also, ❤
Thanks to everyone for the great discussion. I really appreciate hearing from everyone, and particularly those who use or have used gender-neutral pronouns and what your experiences have been. I am always optimistic that there will be changes in the future with regard to our concepts of gender, and I think it is the upcoming generations who will make them. I don’t know that I will be around to see those changes, but I have hope that they will occur.
I get totally befuddled about gender neutral pronouns. We have two problems here: Gender Queer and the numerous pronouns that go with that identity. People have grown up with binary gender forever and people have a hard time making changes in anything. I think gender queer folks really need to get out publicly exactly WHAT it means to be gender queer. People just have no concept of it at all. Then there are a whole bunch of weird-sounding or looking neutral pronouns folks want to use. I don’t even know how “hir” sounds or “ey” – forget what the rest of them were the reader wanted people to use. I really think it will be easier for all involved if the gender queer community got together and decided on what pronouns they want people to use to refer to them – as a group – by. Imagine if there were 10 pronouns to refer to those with male bodies/identity or female biodies/identity? I think if there was “he”, “she”, “they” (whatever gets decided on) things would be better for all to feel respected and comfortable all around. JMHO.
I believe it is a very hard road for anyone who is outside societal “norms” and it rests on those of us who are here now to make it easier on those to come. We have to handle it with grace and patience as we are the ones asking for change and acceptance. Unfortunately I find many people in transition or who identify outside the binary angry at those who are trying but make mistakes and enraged at those who refuse to try, I would love to see this energy put into positive movement. As is with the entire LGBTQI community the infighting and inability to unite even behind the terms makes it almost impossible to bring the larger communities to support us. If as a community we can unite then we can enroll other parts of society to come along and support us. I don’t know what it is like being on the non-binary; I do know what it is like to be miss-gendered. Once, in a united way, pronouns can be agreed upon it is then through positive usage and education that they can be woven into our vernacular. It would be wonderful if someday pronouns would disappear or they wouldn’t be assumed by presentation, but as with so many other LGBTQI issues these things take time and money and mountains of effort. As with everything in my life I am either a victim and part of the problem or an activist and part of the solution, it’s my choice.
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I understand the desire (and maybe the need) for gender-neutral pronouns, but add me to the list of those who think it’ll be hard to get it to happen. Near impossible, I think. Even if people care enough to try, they get frustrated by the effort and give up.
I have enough trouble just trying to get others to stick with male pronouns for me (like Matt mentioned, there’s no problem with my name, but then they follow it with a female pronoun in the same sentence). It’s very difficult to let that just roll off me and try not to care, so I applaud those that can let it go.
@ CaptLex…I completely agree. We need to lighten up a bit. If someone intentionally mis-genders you then that’s another issue but I try to give my friends and family a break. If they continue to do it after a reasonable period of time, then you need to let them know that it bothers you and hopefully they will make more of an effort. Not only do we go through a transitioning process but so do our family and friends. We need to support them in their efforts and postively reinforce their progress. Anger rarely solves anything.
It’s going to happen because it needs to happen. It’s going to happen because I’d rather die than live in a world where I believe it can’t. Okay? Okay. End of story.
And anger is a natural response to this sort of thing, even as we oh-so-gently coaxe along the people in our lives. Enough with the tone policing already.
@Riam: Good luck with that! At some point you have to deal with reality as it is. Yes, work to change it for the better but you just can’t kill yourself when things don’t go as you want.
I find that anger drives people away. You might make your point but you have pretty much alienated everyone you know because they think you are a friggin bitch. On a global or community wide level, anger may be appropraite but on a personal level I do not think it’s the most constructive method of creating change.
I can do what I like, thank you. And I don’t express my anger to them. Whether that sort of repression is healthy or not is yet to be determined, but it is the current state of affairs, so you really don’t have a leg to stand on there. And I can’t control whether or not I feel anger.
Do whatever the fuc# you like. You sound very angry. I can’t imagine many people want to be around that kind of negative energy. You must really be a gem in the TG Support Groups…NOT..
“Anger drives people away”, and yet, you call people “friggin bitch” and say “do whatever the fuc# you like.” I guess those interpersonal rules you espouse are too hard for you to follow. Or maybe you’re not angry while writing this, just mean.
@ southcarolinaboy: I did not call anyone a “friggin bitch”. I said that responding in anger to someone who gets the pronouns confused will cause people to make that assumption. There’s a huge difference.
Secondly, the response to me was very rude so my response was also. If someone is intentionally rude, I will certainly give it right back at em.
If you read my original response I said that you can usually tell if someone is misgendering you intentionally or not. If they are genuinely making an effort then I say give them a break. If they are intentionally being rude, then I say anger is completely justfied. I do not think you are required to be anybody’s whipping post.
“. . . you can usually tell if someone is misgendering you intentionally or not. If they are genuinely making an effort then I say give them a break. If they are intentionally being rude, then I say anger is completely justfied.”
My situation at work falls somewhere in between. It’s not intentional, but it’s never-ending and I can’t give them a break because other people pick up the wrong pronouns from them and the problem perpetuates. So I correct people (never angrily) but this causes them to avoid me. Yet the problem continues. I can only imagine the added difficulty if I tried to get them to use gender-neutral pronouns.
I totally understand and sympathize with your situation. My first tactic would be speaking with co-workers directly and expressing your feelings and advising them how it affects others behavior towards you. If this does not get results, then possibly speaking to your boss/ supervisor or Human Relations Dept. if it is a large company. Often, in large companies, the HR Dept. will bring in a gender therapist to address employees and answer question regarding their concerns. Unfortnuately, not all companies are that progressive. This can be incredibly helpful if available but even in companies that score 100% with HRC regarding LGBT issues, Trans employess still have to deal with a few bad apples.Sometimes the best advice is to find another place of employment where people do respect you. Good luck!
“Sometimes the best advice is to find another place of employment where people do respect you.”
Your advice was good but ALL your suggestions have been tried with no success except for the last one, so finding another job is my next (and hopefully last) step. I’m looking for employment elsewhere, but in this economy it hasn’t been easy. Thanks for posting – maybe your answer can help someone else in the same predicament.
Oh that sucks, CaptLex. I hope things work out for you. Now is a difficult time to be looking for work.
I don’t think that comment underneath yours from Riam Returns was a response to you. I think it was a general statement at the end of this thread that despite all the cries of “Not going to happen,” the thing that keeps them (I’m guessing, sorry if this is the wrong one) going is believing that people can do better and that there will someday be nonbinary pronouns in general use. To which your reply was rude. And they didn’t even say, “I will kill myself if people don’t start using these pronouns tomorrow.”
@ Southcarolinaboy: I was replying to the comment : “I’d rather die than live in a world where I believe it can’t.”.
I agree that losing hope that things will improve for Gender Variant folks is a huge problem for many in our community. Life certainly can be depressing.
I try to focus on the positive changes that are happening but I agree that it is not always easy and I can certainly sympathize with people who are frustrated, angry, depressed, and hopeless. Been there!
Sorry if you felt my comment was rude. I tend to speak my mind which is often unfiltered…lol. It may come off as rude and for that I apologize. I honestly try to make comments that will be helpful and useful based on my experience as a Trans person. I have been a strong activist for the Gender Community for the last 20 years including facilitating a Trans Youth support group with Sunserve in Ft. Lauderdale for 2 years and speaking to City leaders to include Gender Identity/ Expression to the Nondiscrimination Ordinances of Dade, Broward, Duval, and Alachua counties in Florida.
This is obviously a topic that a lot of people have really strong feelings about. I just ask, on this blog, that we are able to maintain a civil and respectful discussion. So I appreciate everyone’s cooperation with that, and I thank everyone again for the many viewpoints that we have gotten here.
Unfortunately, many people are not going to understand gender neutral pronouns. To be honest, I don’t even understand them. I just try my best to get it right when I do encounter a gq person.
Matt, I’m putting a link to this one in tonight’s post at my place. Another good one, and vital to us all. Thank you!
Julie
[…] Another place I’ve been spending time is over at Matt Kailey’s. One post in particular, including the comments, is a must read. Tonight I hope to hang with The Bloggess, by then I […]
I normally don’t press people to use gender neutral pronouns, though I prefer them, if I just met the person or if I don’t feel that the situation calls for it (that is, if I don’t know that a person will understand, I don’t feel like having an argument, etc). That’s my right. But (thankfully) for me, it’s not a situation of severe dysphoria to be called ‘she’ or ‘he’. If the OP feels strongly about it, they have every right to discuss it with people, and argue for their choice of pronoun if they feel it necessary.
It frustrates me that people, many binary-identified trans people at that, say “I’m just too confused”, or “it’s too hard to remember so many different words”, or “well, it’s not gonna happen, so get over it”, or even “why do you have to be *SO* different? just pick one!” It’s hypocritical to the extreme. Many binary-identified trans people get the exact same (or very similar) arguments and dismissals from cis people, all the damn time. If a binary-identified trans person has every right to argue for the pronoun of her/his choice, then why can’t a non-binary identified person have that exact same right? We should have the right to define our identities as we choose, pick the pronouns that feel right to us, and defend our choices without being dismissed or mocked. Binary and non-binary alike.
I think that it is harder for GQ folks because it isn’t as clear cut as remembering to use “he” or “she”, “he”, “him” in trans men or trans women. For GQs there are way too many words that are too strange. That’s why I suggested that GQ folks get together and use one that suits all non-binary folks that the rest of the binary folks can learn and use. This can be done like we learneed to use “Ms.” for women instead of the “Miss” and Mrs”.
I have no problem in using “they” or even “hir”. I’d like to know how to use the equivilants for “her”, “hers”, “she” or the male ones. We need much more guidance on how to use words correctly in writing and in spoken words and how to use tenses of these. It seems liker the GQ community hasn’t really come together on what is acceptable to all and then teach the words to us binary folks. I think most of us will want to be respectful of GQ gender pronouons as we want for our binary ones that fit our identuities as trans male or trans female.
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