I have received several questions from readers related to various aspects of age, genetics, and transition, so I thought we could examine them as a group. These generally deal with FTM transition, so I’m hoping that women readers will chime in with information they have related to age, genetics, and MTF transition.
Question 1. A reader writes: “Is it at all possible to get top surgery before age 18 without hormones? I’d like to get top surgery the summer before I enter college. Only thing is, is this even legal? Would getting surgery literally two months from my eighteenth birthday be that big of a deal?”
Question 2. A reader writes: “I was wondering if there are any studies, anecdotal or otherwise, relating to growth results comparative to age when first beginning T. A friend asked me if I would have lesser results beginning therapy now as I am 44. After reading your post about neophallus size possibly being related to genetic programming, I am doubly curious, as I come from a line of well-endowed men. Has anyone compiled such data?”
Question 3. A reader writes: “How long did it take for your facial hair to come in? I have been on T for eight months now and my facial hair is very blond and fine like baby hair. It is hard to see. Isn’t male facial hair much more course and thick?”
Answer 1: It’s not illegal for a minor to have corrective surgery. And although many guys see hormones as a first step in transition, followed by chest surgery, there’s no law or “rule” that says it must be that way. Some guys do have chest surgery first, followed by hormones, and some guys never take hormones, for various reasons.
However, transition surgery is also serious business and not to be taken lightly. Most surgeons who perform surgeries related to transition still require a therapist’s letter to perform such surgeries. I would also guess that many surgeons will require parental consent to perform this type of surgery on a minor.
If you are committed to transition, it is not a bad idea to enter college as your “new” and true self. So I would advise that you contact your surgeon of choice and ask what he or she requires in this particular circumstance. You can check with several that you have identified. Then get the information together that you need and make your plan. Good luck to you!
Answer 2: I don’t think anyone has compiled much data related to anything when it comes to transition results, particularly for FTM transition. I am not aware of any studies examining clitoral or phallic growth results achieved through testosterone therapy in relation to the age at which a person begins testosterone therapy (I hope readers will make me aware of any such studies out there).
There is anecdotal evidence that the younger a person is when he begins T, the greater or more satisfactory his overall transition results, and I have personally seen a bunch of young guys who seem to become unrecognizable overnight (but really within three to five months – it just seemed like overnight to me).
But while I think age can be a factor, I think genetics play a much larger part in transition results. However, that doesn’t mean that your genetics for penis size are the same as your male relatives. You simply don’t know, just like a 12-year-old boy doesn’t know what will happen to him at puberty and beyond. If your male relatives are well-endowed, it’s a good sign, but it’s nowhere near a guarantee. Just like any guy, you can’t take it back and exchange it for a bigger model. You just have to hope for the best.
Answer 3: It took me eighteen months to see any male facial hair at all, and I still can’t grow a decent mountain-man beard after thirteen years on T (and now it’s white! – but that’s age). At first, I thought this had to do with the age at which I started (42), especially when I saw younger guys with full beards after five or six months on T. But although I still think age could be a factor, as I said above, I think genetics has more to do with it. T will act on your own genetic programming – it can’t create something that it isn’t genetically there to begin with.
But eight months is not long enough for you to become discouraged. T works over time, and you probably won’t know completely what will happen with your facial hair for at least two years and maybe longer. You will get male facial hair – I can almost guarantee it (at least I don’t know any guy yet who has not, although there may be some). Patience is one of the hardest things to have in transition, yet it is the one characteristic that is absolutely required.
Now to hear from readers – guys, what do you know and what has been your own experience, and women, what can you tell other women who might be read this and have similar questions about their own transition?
Ha, boy, I started T on April 8, 2008. It took about 10 months to start seeing patchy wispy black hair on my face. Fast forward to today and I can grow a good beard, but my mustache is still on the wispy side, its kicking into gear now though. But see, that took 3 years. Everyone’s different, and it does rely on genetics, cause I look just like my dad’s side now; all the hair is falling off the top of my head and onto my back, haha! Darn genetics!
Yeah, I thought I didn’t have the male pattern baldness gene, because all my friends were going bald within two years and I had all my hair. When I got to the five-year mark, I thought I had it licked. I figured I didn’t have the gene. Then at about eight years in, my hair started falling out. It was in the sink, on the floor, on my shoulders – everywhere but my head!
It took eight years for that to kick in. Then I went off T for a little while for health reasons and it grew back! Now I’m on Finasteride, which seems to keep it in check a little bit. I still have a receding hairline and it is thinning in back, but most of it seems to be staying in place.
Oh yeah, I turned 23 this past January, and this coming April 8th will be my 3 year T anniversary (I’m gonna give my bottle of T flowers and chocolates, haha). Well, don’t feel bad, at least your graying is somewhat within range, I’m still a whippersnapper and I’ve got gray all over, my hairline is receding and its all thinning. Plus I’ve got the bald spot that’s prevalent on my dad’s line, haha! I shaved my hair down the other day and my grandma says, “Hank, you shaved it too short on the crown.” I said “no, but thanks for noticing my bald spot!” 😀 I think mine’s a mix of genetics and stress, if I don’t have anything to worry about I’ll find something.
Funny story, when it first started happening, I got out of the shower and thought I saw a dog hair on my shoulder, so I tried to brush it off. Didn’t work. So, I tried to pick it off and I yanked it, realized it was attached, and yelped! Now it’s like a disease, its everywhere. I wonder if I could transplant it to my upper lip?
If genetics is true by my early 30’s I should grow a good mustache, and by my early 40’s it will look like Tom Selleck’s, though much grayer. Thankya, Jesus!
Your hairline looks fine! It doesn’t look receded at all. Sure its a little gray but that’s what the Just For Men commercial says makes you look like you know what you can do, and can still do it! And then a hoochie walks by. 😀 That’s good it’s staying in place though.
Hey Matt, does your insurance pay for the Finasteride or do you have to pay out of pocket? And is that the same as Propecia – is it the generic name for it?
It’s the same as Propecia, I believe – just generic. Insurance does not pay for this. It’s relatively expensive, but you cut the pills into quarters, so it lasts quite a while. One 30-day dose lasts 120 days. It has worked for me. I think Rogaine has worked for guys, too, but I didn’t want to try it, because the instructions say that it might cause more hair to fall out initially before it takes effect, and if more hair fell out and then it didn’t work, well, I’d be even balder!
Bald isn’t bad. Some guys look great bald. Unfortunately, I don’t think I would be one of them.
Bald wouldn’t work for me either – we can’t all be Yul Brynner, right? I do use the Rogaine and it helps, but it’s pricey and it also leaves my hair kinda sticky which I really hate, so I may ask my doc for a Propecia Rx next time I see her. Thanks.
I started T in March of 2010. Within a few months I had some sparse facial hair that seemed to come to a stand still for a while. At about 11 months, I actually lowered my dose (from 80mg/week to 70mg/week doing subcutaneous shots), and I don’t know if it was just a matter of time or the change in the dosage, but all of a sudden I’ve got a lot more facial hair! Not enough to grow it out and look decent, but enough that when I’m lazy and let the stubble stay for the day I probably look 15 instead of 12 (I’m in my mid-twenties).
I started T in June 2005. I started shaving that year but didn’t really have anything but wispy hair until ’07 or so. By the beginning of 2009 I was able to grow what one could actually call a beard, although I think it looked much fuller and better the next year. My sideburns joined up with the beard sometime in 2010.
In the past few months I’ve noticed that my moustache is starting to grow dark hairs; I haven’t tried to grow it out, but I am pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to grow a full moustache yet.
My father is unable to grow anything more than vague chin-stubble, although my brother can grow a full beard easily. So yes, now I have more facial and body hair than my dad, which I think is pretty funny.
I haven’t started T yet but do have some sparse hair on my chin and it is white. I am 60 years old. Also, anyone know if one goes off T does the beard fall out and revert to the pre-T state?
I’m no doctor, but my doctor told me that it would become thinner and grow slower, but not go away if I stopped T (but she was speaking specifically to my medical situation – only on T a year and I still have, we assume, functioning ovaries)
I have seen older guys who grew an impressive beard after about 1 year on T, so it’s not mainly about old age. There are also younger guys where the T doesn’t work so well (maybe not when you’re in your teens and practically still in first puberty, but certainly in your 20s).
For Question #1:
I just got chest surgery without being on T or being male identified (part of the reason for starting my blog was to document and dispel questions around this). If you are under 18, I can pretty much guarantee you will need your parent’s consent, at the very least. After that, consult with an informed consent surgeon. (However, what you may be advised against is possible future breast growth, as it does happen – I was still developing at 19). It’s definitely possible, just do your research and ask questions. I’d look into support groups for parents of trans children – they’re probably very informed on this as well.
Thanks for all the information, folks. Any thoughts or experience with regard to phallic growth (question 2).
I would still like to hear from some women with regard to their own transition timetables, age, and genetics, but this may not be the forum for it. I’m sure there are other forums where women discuss these issues.
Again, thanks for all the helpful comments.
Okay, I’ll share . . .
I guess I’m the exception: I had facial hair even before I started T (May 4, 2006, if anyone is keeping score) due to the excessive androgen production that began in my teens, but I don’t think I’ll ever be able to grow a complete beard because my moustache won’t grow in enough to match the rest of my face (it’s full enough, though, it just doesn’t get to the same level). And my eyebrows won’t grow to a masculine shape either, unfortunately. 😦
This is because I lived as a woman for 44 long years, complete with lots of eyebrow plucking, upper lip waxing and, eventually, even shaving the chin before I began transitioning (so beware young ‘uns). What can I say? My family has a strong hairy gene and I was trying to live as a female back then, so I had to keep that under control.
It’s been almost five years now and the moustache and eyebrows won’t grow, so I have to accept that those follicles are permanently damaged. And like many of you, I’ve also been blessed with the hair loss gene. Rogaine has kept it from falling out entirely so far, but that stuff isn’t cheap.
OMG, my eyebrows! You, too? My dad had a natural arch in his eyebrows, and so do I – but I spent years plucking my eyebrows to accentuate that natural arch, and now they won’t grow in no matter what. I look at all these guys with thick eyebrows and no arch and I’m jealous. I would still have a slight arch, but nothing like I have now, and it will be there forever.
As for Q2, Genetics in my family leans more towards the average size. However, considering I was not born a man, I have some catching up to do! 🙂 Being candid though, I’ve been on T for three years now (today’s the anniversary, not the 8th, forgot) and when I’m erect I measure out at about 2 inches in length and two ticks less than 3 inches in girth. I haven’t had surgery yet, so the cutting of the ligament should give me a little extra length. I do pump a little, every little bit counts I figure. I made a homemade pump using a syringe casing I got from my pharmacist, and some clear electrical tape from Home Depot. Boy, she asked me what it was for and when I finally explained it to her I could tell she was thinking “dang it, why’d I ask?” Haha. I explained it “Scientifically” so it wasn’t weird. She knows of my past, and she’s cool with it. Well, that’s my experience, everyone is different though.
Yeah, I think you guys who plucked eyebrows and waxed upper lips most likely damaged the follicles. I NEVER did any of this! I have straight eyebrows sitting on top of a brow ridge that all came naturally. My brows used to be thick and red – now they’re bleached very pale and aren’t so thick anymore. I do shave the little goatee on my chin. My barber said it looked like the botom portions of a “fu man chu” mustashe – and that is white as well. I also have the stray hair of two on my face near my jawline.
I am due to have my first shot of T next Tuesday. As to other body hair, I hope I don’t get too hairy! The men in my immediate family are sparsely furred.
“Not enough to grow it out and look decent, but enough that when I’m lazy and let the stubble stay for the day I probably look 15 instead of 12 (I’m in my mid-twenties).”
Yeah, that’s about how I look. With 8 years of natural testicle-produced T (from 16 to 24). So yeah, genetics, grain of salt. My 3 brothers are all more hairy. I’m the oldest.
I’ve had 5 years of estrogen since then. Not much of a change.
Though I’m also someone who has sparse hair on arms (at least, nothing to tell anyone about – for a woman), no armpit hair (never grew any, which is apparently rare) and no chest hair (was all fuzz, so invisible).
At 28 years old, I can pass for a 19 years old woman, sometimes get asked for ID (18 is legal age here). And say, a 16-17 years old boy, if I could even pass for a boy.
I don’t use make-up much at all, so this assessment is based on not wearing any.